Vitamin B2: An Anecdotal "Overmethylation" Solution for Some People
2022.01.19 00:57 frozengreatlake Vitamin B2: An Anecdotal "Overmethylation" Solution for Some People
Abstract: Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) supplementation might be a potential solution for “overmethylation”. A number of people have stated that taking a relatively high dose of the nutrient for a prolonged period has resulted in a cessation of negative side effects from relevant methylation or monoamine-related supplements. These anecdotes are listed below, along with related information:
Analysis of Primary Anecdotes:
- Daily Dose: (1) 400mg; (2) 200mg; (3) 400mg (4) 35mg split in 3 doses
- Timespan: (1) Months; (2) Unknown; (3) Months; (4) One Month
- Type (Riboflavin vs. R5P): (1) Riboflavin; (2) Riboflavin; (3) Riboflavin; (4) Riboflavin
- Side Effects: (1) Too relaxing; (2) None; (3) Unknown; (4) None
- u/Dietoli Post
- Summary: He / she couldn’t handle methylation-related supplements until the implementation of B2 (and glycine). This commenter has since been able to continually handle creatine for multiple months.
- Key Statement: "I believed that I was a overmethylator. I reached this conclusion when I couldn't tolerate substances that directly or indirectly increase methyl groups. I decided to steer clear of any substance that increases methyl groups except riboflavin, I had to take riboflavin due to some other condition. I took immense amounts of riboflavin. Mega dosed riboflavin and took glycine too. After several months of doing this, one day I decided to try the creatine powder one more time when I found that trying methylcobalamin wasn't causing any difficulties. To my surprise it didn't give me bad symptoms. Now it has been almost a week or more, I have taken creatine everyday, once or twice, at least. It isn't bothering me at all. My conclusion is that I actually have undermethylation, not overmethylation, and taking creatine freed up methyl groups which worsened my symptoms initially. Riboflavin kept supporting the methylation process till I began to be able to tolerate methyl groups, so now creatine doesn't harm me anymore. I think my next course of action would be trying SAMe again.” 
- Side Effects: “It relaxed me a little too much” 
- Dosage: “Mega dose would be 400 mg / day” 
- u/Mattyk128 Comment
- Summary: Doctor recommended B2 to increase tolerance of methylation-related nutrients.
- Key Statement: “I currently use hydroxyb12 (1000 mcg) and FOLINIC acid (400 mcg) and for my specific case i also use 200 mg of b2 (my doc suggested this as i was struggling to tolerate even the folinic acid at first” 
- Reasoning of Doctor: “She thought maybe I was deficient in B2 and it seems to be helping. I guess without sufficient B2 it can make it harder to methylate properly and the added B9 is just still clogging up the methylation? You basically need all parts working, not just one part.” 
- Side Effects: “I had no negative side effects.” 
- Dosage: “200 mg of b2” 
- Neer's Phoenix Rising Post on “A List of Supplements to Avoid as Overmethylators”
- Summary: This person experienced “overmethylation” symptoms from a variety of supplements that he listed. After continual supplementation of B2 he was then able to tolerate all of the previously mentioned nutrients that caused trouble.
- Key Statement: “I am actually able to tolerate all these substances very well now. I no longer believe that I am an overmethylator, but I believe that I was a severe case of Undermethylation. As I supplied my body with methyl donating substances, it brought some changes which were quite difficult to tolerate initially. Hence I believe I was severely undrtmethylated. I took large doses of riboflavin, 400 mg a day for months, and I think it safely fixed my methyl group shortage, and I find that I can easily tolerate all the above mentioned substances now.” 
- Overmethylation: “What I do know is that these substances wrecked havoc in my health. Although substance that is meant to absorb the excess methyl groups, glycine, gave me enormous relief.” 
- Theory: “I think what's worth mentioning is that other methyl donors too could have brought me to the place where I am, but riboflavin worked for me over others because it really chilled me out unlike other methyl donors which made me angry / irritable. My personal theory is that it chilled me out because it speeds up the MAOA expression, which metabolizes serotonin and adrenaline.” 
- Type: In another post he mentioned that he takes riboflavin and not R5P
- Side Effects: Unknown
- Dosage: 400mg a day
- Sherpa on Phoenix Rising
- Summary: He provides numerous posts and comments about how B2 supplementation has allowed him to beat “overmethylation”
- Key Statement: “I took the B2 in small doses (minimum 5mg) 3x a day for at least 4 weeks. In my case I started off a LOW POTENCY NatureMade B-complex in the morning, and a small piece of a B2 tablet with lunch and dinner. the lower dose B-complex was mellow, and constant saturation with B2 normalized my MAO A issues (uncomfortable reactions to methylation supplements, sleep disturbances, anxiety). Your "bit too much" reaction to Jarrow B-right sounds like a classic MAO A R297R +/+ reaction. In my case, many supplements were "too much" and created anxiety and uncomfortable feelings. After about 4 weeks of riboflavin 3x daily, my MAO A enzyme started working properly THEN I could go back and take B-complexes containing methylfolate... like B-right... and not be overstimulated. It just felt real nice” 
- Notable Quote: “Before adding B2 I got uncomfortably overstimulated by large doses of B12 and even small doses of methylfolate.” 
- Side Effects: “I didn't have any problems with B2 - I was deficient and, if anything, my body welcomed it.” 
- Dosage: 35mg split over 3 doses
- u/sodumb4real Comment
- Summary: Vitamin D is implicated in “overmethylation” as it can produce this negative state potentially due to its related impact on monoamine levels; the writer explains how B2 got ride of these side effects.
- Statement: “I don’t know how common it is, but I was getting bad reactions to vitamin D until I added Riboflavin” 
- u/BananaMonkey7 Post
- Summary: The MAO gene is suggested to be a key factor of “overmethylation” given its purpose of degrading monoamines. B2 is a cofactor to it and the commentor suggests that a high dose of this nutrient helps diminish the irritability “overmethylation” side effect.
- Statement: “I also have the MAO warrior gene, if I get too irritable I will have to mega dose B2 to feel relaxed” 
- Crux's Phoenix Rising Comment
- Summary: Commenter suggested that B2 is helpful for remedying “overmethylation”.
- Statement: “Regular B2, riboflavin, is still helpful, as well as niacinamide” 
- u/Dietoli Comment (Different post than noted above)
Type: B2 vs. R5P
- Summary: He / she states that B2 helps stop obsessive thoughts, a symptoms of “overmethylation”.
- Statement: “I have also tried Riboflavin upto 600 mg in a day, as three doses of 200 mg. It is very good too. Both of them chill me out and get rid of obsessive, ruminating, repetitive thoughts.” 
- Explanation: Riboflavin (B2) gets converted to riboflavin 5'-phospate (R5P) to be utilized by the body. Some people supplement R5P, but it does not seem that this is recommended for “overmethylation” purposes. All of the key anecdotes used the regular B2 form, and, in addition, there was an interesting comment that suggested they are not interchangeable:
- Quote: “Be warned that b2 absorption is not linear after 30 mg. It saturates pretty quickly. 100 mg at once might net you 40-50 mg total. That is why I thought to split doses and bam. R5p sodium has no such saturation and high oral bioavailability which is probably why it was so devastating to switch to 100 mg of that almost a year ago.” 
- Counter: Chris Masterjohn, along with some others, suggests that R5P is potentially worse to supplement with, not because it has a different bioavailability, but, rather, because the body has to convert it back to the simple riboflavin form to absorb this nutrient properly. He suggests taking regular B2 for this reason 
- B2 as cofactor to MAO enzyme
- Explanation: One key theory behind “overmethylation” is the dysregulation of monoamine levels with methylation-related nutrients overproducing monoamines such as dopamine and serotonin. Monoamines are typically degraded by the MAO enzyme (note: catecholamines are also broken down by the COMT enzyme). B2 is a central cofactor of the MAO enzyme.
- Quote: “One thing I forgot about the MAOA gene is that B2 is a cofactor so I find it’s important to get enough to keep my [neurotransmitters] balanced” 
- Quote: “My personal theory is that it chilled me out because it speeds up the MAOA expression, which metabolizes serotonin and adrenaline” 
- Sherpa’s Statements:
- “The most common reason for people to respond poorly to methylfolate is vitamin B2 deficiency.” 
- “Lack of B2 in combination with MAO +/+ means that your ability to turn off your neuronal stimulus is greatly reduced, thus leading to 'apparent' over-stimulation of nerves” 
- “MAO requires a metabolite of B2 called FAD to be present when the enzyme is synthesized.” 
- “It normally takes 2-4 weeks of regular B2 supplementation (e.g. 5mg or more, 3x daily) to normalize activity of MAO. This is provided that you have normal thyroid function.” 
- B2 Drives Proper Methylation
- Explanation: This nutrient is central to the methylation process to the point where some individuals have theorize that it is the key vitamin for most methylation issues. Some commenters suggest that supplementation of methylation-related nutrients could be depleting B2.
- Quote: “Methyl-B9 and Methyl-B12 act as ‘cushion’ for the methylation cycle and give the body enough so that it doesn’t have to make as much. Supplementing the 2 don’t actually fix the underlying issue by they’re still valuable. B-2 however is the cofactor that allows reactions to happen as quickly as the body needs. . . oversupplementing methylfolate, methyl-b12 simply creates more opportunities for our altered system to fail and necessitates greater use of B-2. Really, B2 and the Methylfolate (I take 1000mcg, or 1mg) together are the core of the treatment.” 
- Quote: “I ran out of B2 twice when I fired up methylation. The first time my tongue swelled and split – horrible. The second I had a rash on my face and privates, cracks at the corners of my mouth and angry capillaries in my eyes” 
- B2 Potentially Supports Glycine Storage (Helps GNMT function)
- Explanation: Methylation is said to be balanced in the body by the GNMT enzyme, which uses glycine to offset excess SAM-e. One comment suggested that B2 might help with the storage of glycine.
- Quote: “However, I seem to need more active b2 to avoid overmethylation. (Helps to drive mthfr and store glycine appropriately and buffer methyl donors, I think.)” 
- Quote: “After discovering that B2 lifts "folate-trap," I only take B2 and methylfolate in small amounts. I don't require extra B12. Once I fixed the B2 deficiency, B12 and methyfolate became much more potent. Even a small amount of B12 will trigger acetylcholine overload, so will TMG and creatine. What are the possible causes of this? Low homocysteine? BHMT pathway overactive? What should I be taking/avoiding? A few people online reported they got excess acetylcholine from being overmethylators, and they fixed it by supplementing niacin. It's possible that I'm an overmethylator (despite having MTHFR), but folinic acid doesn't work very well for me, even when coupled with B2.” 
- Quote: A post titled “Vitamin B2 causing headaches for anyone else” had this reply - “Happened to me. Headache and troubles falling asleep, which I would suspect are overmethylation symptoms?” 
- Quote: “since starting riboflavin, I can't tolerate any methyl b12 of methylfolate. it is incredibly strong. maybe all I needed was riboflavin this whole time. I can only take like 5-10 mg every three days. and it seems no one makes a riboflavin supplement in less than 50 mg doses 
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Given each of the following roots of polynomials, find the missing roots.
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Hi. I'm currently struggling a lot with my depressed/suicidal best friend. We've actually only known each other for 3 years and i caught on to her depression very early on. I've always listened to her and tried to make her feel heard and loved. For a while, I felt like she was getting so much better and we were happy. We started living together last year, and I wondered if that's where the mistake happened. Having to deal with her depression 24/7 was really weighing on my mental health. Even when we tried to do something fun, her mood was ruined by the smallest of things like traffic or crowds. It made every outing horrible. Everything started feeling horrible between us. There were so many times where i just wanted to run away and not have to deal with her at all. But she tells me I'm her favorite person in the whole world and that I'm the reason she is living. It's so much burden on me. I tell her I love her and all but she said it hurts her that she's not the number 1 priority in my life (she said she could tell). She said she rather have me love her the most or just not love her at all. Like I couldn't come to understand that. That's when I realized how toxic our relationship is because she is codependent on me. And the worst part is that, she makes me feel not enough when i'm literally the only person that is ever there for her. I do everything she asks. I even change things about me that she asks me to do because I wanted her to see that I do care about her. But in her eyes, I don't care for her at all even after everything. Everything is just so heartbreaking to me. I brought that problem up to her, and maybe that was my mistake because she mistook it and now it's embedded in her head that she's a burden/bothecharity case and that she doesn't want to believe in anything more because it'll hurt less. We moved back to our own respective family homes at the end of last year. And because of the distance, it has gotten so much worse. She's constantly texting me about wanting to die and how she feels like we aren't even friends anymore when i'm literally texting her everyday. I love her but I'm not her therapist and it's all so draining because there's no one I can talk to. She just thinks that I don't care if I don't listen. I tried to get her help but she has bad relations with her family and also she absolutely despise the idea of seeing a therapist. What she needs the most is a support group but theres no one that she's close to other than me. I have introduced her to my friend group before and that didn't end well. She doesn't want help but I'm so worried that she will kill herself soon since lately she has been in the lowest of lows. I've called her and talk to her all night when I feel like she is going to harm herself. But I just can't keep doing this. I've contemplated about leaving the friendship over and over again because my efforts feels so worthless at this point and it's all so emotionally and mentally draining. I don't know if it is the right thing to leave the friendship because she can obviously hurt herself at any time. Recently, she seemed to have pushed me really far and it seems like it'll be easy to just walk away. But when I'm just at the edge of walking away, I remember all the good things about her that she doesn't see and all the good things she has done for me. She is my best friend for a reason and I know she does make effort to care for me when she isn't so deep in her depression. I can't leave her be no matter how hurt I feel sometimes. I've been contemplating if I should live with her again. If that can fix our friendship and give her a little hope again. I know she would be thrilled if I asked her too. She would feel like there is something to look forward to again. I just want her to feel something again. To feel connected to at least me so that she doesn't disappear. But I just don't know if it'll be the right choice for me because I'm going to enter graduate school next year and I just don't know if that her plus school stress could tip me over. I feel like it might work if there were some boundaries this time. But I know that she doesn't respond well when I set boundaries. What can I do to her in this situation? Should I live with her again?
Thanks for anyone who reads this. it's quite long but I actually tried to condense it so I'm not sure if it even makes sense. I really just need some advice but I have no where to go.
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